tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post6905801343094092366..comments2024-03-14T12:01:17.079-04:00Comments on ROBERT BIDINOTTO: Election 2012 and the Clash of NarrativesRobert Bidinottohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11777797272563802442noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-77561732207954785882012-10-07T16:24:17.538-04:002012-10-07T16:24:17.538-04:00Wonderfully ambitious essay! And I think your hist...Wonderfully ambitious essay! And I think your historical analysis is correct. Our world needs to reject the hunter-gatherer, tribalist, competitive, "zero-sum" mentality and belief-system in favor of an Industrial Era, individualist, cooperative, "win-win" mentality and belief-system. But that entails a philosophical revolution! So it may be a while before we actually get there. :-/ Kyrel Zantonavitchhttp://www.liberalinstitute.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-20145702455160557072012-10-07T15:33:53.162-04:002012-10-07T15:33:53.162-04:00Hi Robert - Let's examine what is seen and wha...Hi Robert - Let's examine what is seen and what isn't seen. <br /><br />How did the one kiddie get all the toys? Applying this to the real world, we know that he wasn't just given all the toys, i.e. he did not inherit them. It is rare in the US that wealth is inherited. That is, the vast majority of rich Americans got that way through the sweat of their own brow, not that of their parents.<br /><br />Therefore, either he built all the toys himself (that is, he actually made them himself or he received them from an outside source in exchange for some work he performed) or he received them from his classmates in exchange for some work he performed for them. Let's suppose for example that there are 5 kids in the class and that the teacher had proposed a "fair" system at the beginning of the school year that each child had the duty one day each week to sweep the classroom at the end of the day. <br /><br />Now, to make the analogy between the two aforementioned sources of the toys, we can propose that either (a) the teacher "paid" for this labor by giving the toy directly to the child who performed the task, or (b) the teacher gave the toy to the child assigned the task. Now, four of the kids desired to play rather than sweep. So, they exchanged their toy or their right to a toy for the one kid's agreement to perform their work while they played. But that's the part of the narrative that Kristoff and the left would prefer to leave out - that the little boy with all the toys - at this one point in time - has them because he fairly exchanged his labor for their toys.<br /><br />The left also favors the single-point-in-time narrative that he simply hoards the toys. In real life, he doe not hoard the toys. Prior to the point when he has all the toys, he worked while others played. As the future plays out, the other children who want toys will be able to trade their labor for his toys. There is nothing inherently "unfair" about this. It's simply a matter of pay me now or pay me later, or more succinctly, play now and work later or work now and play later.<br /><br />The left wants to reward the kids who chose to play rather than work initially at the expense of those who delayed their gratification and worked first. But the toys would have never existed in the first place if someone had not first worked to build them. Therefore, it should be evident that in any society those who are willing to work first and delay gratification are the more valuable members of that society - indeed they are essential - and their rights should not be abridged.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-25673597218502017872012-10-07T13:54:11.994-04:002012-10-07T13:54:11.994-04:00Excellent article. I've sent it to everyone o...Excellent article. I've sent it to everyone on my email list who is able to read. Thank you.Principlexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15976696315627239104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-53506832385177948272012-10-07T09:06:52.668-04:002012-10-07T09:06:52.668-04:00Robert - while you provide a fairly well thought o...Robert - while you provide a fairly well thought out argument, you seem to think our reliance on storytelling is fixed/unalterable and constitutes a zero-sum pie of how we go about deciding things. People relied upon story because it made it easier to remember all the details. But that's no longer completely applicable in the networked age. We're not even where we were 4 years ago in terms of knowledge use. Innovations like crowd-sourcing, open source, creative commons, kickstarter.com, Khan Academy, knowledge distribution, radically changes the dependency upon a spoon-fed (shoveled, really) narrative. Additionally, social networks are getting more dynamic, leading to other possibilities:<br /><br />http://blog.summation.net/2012/10/it-is-now-what-you-know-not-who-you-know.html<br /><br />Those most likely to believe the shoveled narrative likely lack diverse communications capabilities/ technology. While it is true a particular tribal or mob mentality can be cultivated, avenues of communication are expanding, leading to a challenging of assumptions and even less reliance upon story/narrative. <br /><br />Big media hates this dynamic because it renders them completely obsolete. So it's not surprising to find someone like Chris Matthews denigrating Jack Welch over his use of Twitter to raise questions about BLS stats.<br /><br />That said, we're still in a transition and I agree with you that Romney should provide an educational narrative that explains the whys of our exceptional, innovative American Experiment. That might help the incurious.<br /><br />Thanks for an excellent article.Chris Arsenaulthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773858656968422745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-31777662607450916032012-10-07T08:04:52.875-04:002012-10-07T08:04:52.875-04:00The media's narratives are driving me up the w...The media's narratives are driving me up the wall! Why aren't more people seeing these narratives for what they are? It's a propaganda war and Orwellian.Always On Watchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192688822955022541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-62251873719190463292012-10-07T00:59:02.376-04:002012-10-07T00:59:02.376-04:00brilliant.brilliant.CognitiveCarbonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11537846058005992032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-3907319739225886062012-10-07T00:50:05.853-04:002012-10-07T00:50:05.853-04:00Interesting.. I'd never given much thought to ...Interesting.. I'd never given much thought to the roots of redistributionists.. socialists.. to me they were simply the enemy. I was a cold warrior, and I did have a grounding in what Marxism was selling, and the threat it posed, via a nuclear armed and militant Soviet block. But thinking about it..<br /><br />The left does exhibit the same zeal of the most primitive tribal culture,.. a religion without Gods,.. but they do have their villains.<br /><br />and they attack those members of what they perceive their tribe to include, who reject their narrative like they are Spanish Monks branding heretics.. and they so enjoy their work..<br /><br />I have a more optimistic take on the race than you do.. I think Romney ghas finally managed to shake up the race, the debate win, has rattled the left so much, they are tending towards insane over reaction.<br /><br />C was in full meltdown, with their star players savagely attacking not only Romney.. but one of their own.. Jim Lehrer, they threw him under the bus so fast, it's clear they felt betrayed that he didn't manage to rig the debate to save their secular messiah.<br /><br />We have a good chance, inspite of the entire M playing games with the truth,.. their campaigning for Obama.. People saw the two men, side by side.. and Obama looked like the petulant little rat he is.<br /><br />Even though I'm more optimistic about our fellow citizens.. I found the piece fascinating.Mark81150https://www.blogger.com/profile/11512817253146221702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-29179996715141593502012-10-06T22:23:43.551-04:002012-10-06T22:23:43.551-04:00Excellent analysis. Let's hope the Internet c...Excellent analysis. Let's hope the Internet can spread these thoughts into Romney's camp. He does have a good story to tell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-43457759804225683442012-10-06T21:51:29.964-04:002012-10-06T21:51:29.964-04:00Yes!Yes!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-17729455749447210072012-10-06T21:43:04.377-04:002012-10-06T21:43:04.377-04:00Robert, thanks for the brilliant post. Can you ple...Robert, thanks for the brilliant post. Can you please provide a list of positive sum simple narratives if any exist? Our children desperately need an early innocculation against these pervasive progressive fairytales that permeate our culture. How do we make the producer the hero that the majority of the audience can relate to, when in reality those who are driven to work harder for longer than most, by definition tent to not be average? If collating such a list of simple stories for conservatives doesn't seem much of a challenge, have you thought about outlining a simple narrative for Romney, akin to the narrative you so succinctly summarized for obama? ;)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-47360637806779768712012-10-06T20:52:13.366-04:002012-10-06T20:52:13.366-04:00The main problem with Kristoff's analogy is th...The main problem with Kristoff's analogy is that it is based upon one individual taking that which belongs to the group as a whole -- after all, those books, crayons, etc were supplied to the group as a whole. As such, it is perfectly appropriate for those who are being denied their rightful share to demand a more equitable apportioning of those items.<br /><br />Unfortunately for Kristoff, that isn't the case in the real world situation he is looking at. A more proper comparison would have a group of 100 kindergarteners showing up on the first day, some well supplied with their own school supplies and others coming with barely nothing, with the teacher then giving into the demands of those with less to forcibly take the private property of their more affluent classmates so that it can be apportioned out in a more "fair" manner -- but at the cost of the private property rights of those students with better supplies. The result, of course, is that after an all too short period of time the affluent will quit bringing their more plentiful property with them and everyone will be left equal -- with nothing desirable.Rhymes With Righthttp://rhymeswithright.mu.nunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-68646348704414565782012-10-06T20:35:16.230-04:002012-10-06T20:35:16.230-04:00The election is close because the two candidates a...The election is close because the two candidates are so much alike. Republicans and Democrats have so much dirt on each other that one must be careful what the one says lest the levies break. These two candidates have major funding by the major international big banks, so it's going to be a win win for them, getting bailed out no matter who steps into the office. The whole Federal government is dirty: that's the problem with your narrative . "and that unlike Barack Obama, all of his investments and charitable works have been done with his own money, not the taxpayers'." Was it? If Romney asserts that, would the Obama camp be able to counter with proof to the contrary? That would make a whole lot of sense as to why the man is evading the issue. These two men are far too much alike and share too many of the same beliefs and friends to make me think that this whole election is nothing more than theatrics. <br />http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/40-points-that-prove-that-barack-obama-and-mitt-romney-are-exactly-the-sameAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-55062891836518918522012-10-06T19:38:00.061-04:002012-10-06T19:38:00.061-04:00As clear and as cogent a summary of human politica...As clear and as cogent a summary of human political economic evolution as I have read. Now: all who agree must sign up to commit to sharing the Narrative of Individual Freedom. It is absurd to leave it to Romney and others; it is why the GOP has all but disappeared here in California. We each are accountable for this state of affairs; it's the downside of the Narrative of Individual Freedom. We can blame no one else for our own inactivity, myopia, or lethargy. I commit to using this brilliant synopsis of where we stand everywhere I can. Thanks, Mr. Bidinotto. Martyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17635896230439415101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-32406347254261513912012-10-06T18:41:16.103-04:002012-10-06T18:41:16.103-04:00I agree with a lot of the points you make, but I c...I agree with a lot of the points you make, but I can't quite get behind your narrative. I know that I've seen Romney & co. point repeatedly to the wonderful things he did to create jobs and wealth, at Bain Capital. And that I've seen Romney and Ryan talk about America as a society of opportunity for individual achievement.<br /><br />Maybe their narrative isn't tight enough, OK. But I think the media filter has had a lot to do with blocking it out. At the recent debate, Romney got through to millions "unfiltered", and sure enough, his numbers are trending up now.<br /><br />Furthermore, the media has created a false impression of support for Obama by over-sampling Democrats in their polls (that is, by applying 2008 turnout models which are not realistic for this year). That fraud should see some exposure on Election Day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-36027168699164628112012-10-06T18:30:35.667-04:002012-10-06T18:30:35.667-04:00Terrific assessment, Robert. Thank you.
Let'...Terrific assessment, Robert. Thank you. <br /><br />Let's hope Team Romney pursues this approach in the few days remaining.Stretchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-29220187981985921692012-10-06T18:28:29.237-04:002012-10-06T18:28:29.237-04:00There is another aspect to the zero-sum narrative,...There is another aspect to the zero-sum narrative, as well ... from what I see, it consistently includes the submission of individual initiative to the direction of an elite few, because they were/are perceived as "better" than the ordinary man.<br /><br />In the last century, this took the form of the blind worship of credentials and expertise as evidence of both superior intellect and the possession of wisdom ... and conversely, the denigration of those who lacked the respected credentials and resumes, regardless of the quality of their ideas.<br /><br />In our time, it has led millions to a different kind of "outsourcing" that IMO is far more corrosive to mankind than the kind involving imports and Asia ...<br /><br />https://www.facebook.com/notes/ritchie-the-riveter/outsourcing-is-the-problem-but-not-the-way-you-might-think/416571378389947<br /><br />... more corrosive, because it leads them to not only trust the assurances of prosperity and security of the "experts", but do so in ways that leave them more vulnerable to the shocks when the "experts" (inevitably) do not deliver.<br /><br />We have been sold a bill of goods by our supposedly Best and Brightest for a century ... and that fact needs to be included in the Narrative of American Individualism, as a warning to future generations about how easy it is to put their birthright at risk, and how they must exercise their initiative to avoid that risk.Ritchie The Riveterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04142451531127717113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-73929312681311098552012-10-06T18:20:37.491-04:002012-10-06T18:20:37.491-04:00Perfectly said. I have said many of the same thing...Perfectly said. I have said many of the same things vis a vis the leftist zero sum mentality and their mystification at the win-win consensual society but never so comprehensively and cogently.<br /><br />Kudos, sir!FX Phillipsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-26818993942652647502012-10-06T17:39:06.474-04:002012-10-06T17:39:06.474-04:00It seems to me that the problem is Romney doesn...It seems to me that the problem is Romney doesn't or won't understand the narrative you describe so well.<br /><br />He's more like a part of the problem than an answer.<br /><br />This is not going to end well.cittit1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-25142347102732365522012-10-06T17:35:08.350-04:002012-10-06T17:35:08.350-04:00Great read, thanks for the effort you obviously ma...Great read, thanks for the effort you obviously made on all of our behalf, and at a very reasonable price ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28127675.post-89806417326257917302012-10-06T01:04:41.261-04:002012-10-06T01:04:41.261-04:00You are so right. The message needs to go out that...You are so right. The message needs to go out that Mitt Romney is not Gordon Gekko. <br /><br />In Obama's world not only is the pie one size only, but so is the work force thus the need for higher taxes. So sad to see Romney have to school Obama the other night on how not increasing taxes can still generate revenue.Sevanoreply@blogger.com